Countrywide is the largest mortgage company in the US…think they are dealing with a short sale problem at the moment? You betcha. (not to mention short sales of their stock! Wish I had shorted them at $40!) They have now been taking over by Bank of America Mortgage.
Countrywide’s Full Spectrum Lending division was the King of awful sub prime mortgages the past few years, and now those loans are going bad. If you have a countrywide loan and are facing foreclosure, a short sale of your home might be your best option.
I did a short sale of my home (and I had a first and second mortgage on the property) earlier this year. It can be done, but it requires patience and a plan and a little help. There are a zillion schmucks out there who will offer to “help” you when your down. Some are legit, most are not.
What I Did In My Short Sale
What I did (hiring a real estate agent with short sale experience) worked for my situation. It may not for your short sale, but I found it the best option. Working with a real estate agent you at least can get a background on the person, and if they work for a larger brokerage you know they have resources to help you. Think short sales are hard for you? They are equally as hard on the real estate agent! Getting a short sale deal done (especially right now with the overwhelmed lenders like Countrywide) takes alot of work. I do think its the best option vs. foreclosure though. You can also read my 7 steps to a successful short sale guide.
You Need An Experienced Short Sale Agent!
From my blog here I’ve developed an extensive network of real estate agents that have short sale experience. If you’d like a referral, fill out the form below and I’ll have someone available in your area to help with your short sale ASAP.
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We put an offer an a house that was a short sale with Countryiwde on August 17. We are now going on 80 days and have heard very little from anyone on where things are in the process. We keep getting told that we will hear “by this date” that day comes and goes, then they say “oh it will be another week.” I know that they are swamped right now but it seems like this is taking a lot longer than most people have experienced. We put in a fill price offer on the list price, including closing, etc. Now I know that the list price is much lower than the how much the loan is on the property. We were told several weeks ago that there was a negotiator assigned but still have heard nothing. Is there going to be a light at the end of this tunnel since a negotiator has supposedly been assigned or are they going to keep stringing us along and eventually counter with a higher price? How long does the negotiation process usually take?
We initially put in an offer on a “short sale” house way back in May. About 60 days later, our offer was accepted by the sellers first mortgage lender. It wasn’t until another 30 days had passed that Countrywide (the 2nd mortgage lender) “verbally accepted” our offer. We were to close on September 15th – and guess what happened?? Yes – that is right – Countrywide changed their mind, then changed their mind again! We have had numerous attempts at closing on our house (we’ve even signed the final loan docs) just to have Countrywide come back and fight yet again. Now we must re-apply for our own loan and because of the current situation in California, we may not be approved for what we were 6 months ago. After we signed our loan docs, we put in our notice for our apartment and it has already been re-rented as of 12/1. Yeah – it SUCKS! If countrywide doesn’t come through for us in the next 2 weeks – we are officially homeless.
I would NEVER recommend buying a house that is a “short sale” – it is devastating…
@ All -
I cannot imagine a better illustration of the value of the omnipotent approval letter. These poor folks went the distance but, in fact, never really had a deal because they did not have it in writing.
A competent agent could have saved them much grief and expense. Short sales really aren’t the devil’s work. But they do require diligence, patience and, above all, knowledge.
First Off – Happy Veteran’s Day to all of you on this blog who are currently in the service, or have served our country in the past. We owe you so much – and all I can offer you today is very sincere best wishes and my heartfelt respect.
My home is being appraised again today. We have two offers being considered now, and my short sale is being handled by the office of the president @ CW b/c of my email and fax spree I went on a few weeks ago. My previous appraisal was over 90 days old, so they need a new current figure. The 2nd group of buyers were bidding against each other based on the previously aproved short sale figure. Hopefully it will all be settled within 30 days, with the new team from CW handling it, and based on others’ experiences of the quick wrap-up of the short sale.
I moved out 2 days ago – found a perfect condo to rent thru a private party 2 miles from my job. My “new” job earlier this year (40 miles away) was one of the big reasons I was ready to sell – 8 months ago.
I am so disgusted with CW’s handling of my short sale. The people we are dealing with now @ CW say they are amazed at the previous handling of this sale – and not in a good way. I have to say this team is certainly much easier to deal with than anyone we’ve dealt before through this nightmare. I just want to be done with it, have it be over – and move on with my life.
@ All vets and active service people -
I want to echo Hghlndr’s message and thank all who have served our great nation and defended the cause of freedom. That is one debt that I will never sell short.
@Hghlndr -
Congratulations on getting out of there and into a new place. Hang on, you’re almost there. I look forward to reading about your quick escrow and successful closing!
I live in the Dallas area. I put in a Bid for a home and it seems like I’m being played on two fronts. One is the realtor who the listing belongs to and the other is the actual office. I put my bid in a month ago and after finally getting fedup I called several offices and found that the realtor never submitted my bid ( he was lying to me saying he did). I won’t let them get off so easy.
gabriel, I have been negotiating short sales over a year now. Typically if you are not the high bid on the property the lienholder does not want the offer submitted. I tell my buyers right away to make their highest and best offer because it won't be submitted if it isn't the best on the table. He shouldn't have told you he submitted it though, and left you hanging like that. Although, he really doesn't have to tell you anything at all if he doesn't want to.
I was so excited because after 6 months CW approved the short sale (we are the buyers) and we were set to close by the 24th. We have a signed contract with the seller, I had just set up my homeowner's policy, all forms were approved by underwriting–let's just say that all we needed to do was to sign at closing. Well, I get an e-mail from the seller's agent last night stating that the seller has told CW that they want to stay in the home under CW's home retention policy and that they've 'withdrawn' from the short sale. I'm so upset I can hardly speak. I have been patiently waiting for almost 7 months, I have spend over $1000 on inspections and for this to happen right before closing is unfathomable. Luckily, I hadn't given notice on my current rental house.
My question is: since they are under contract with me can they even do this?
Any advice from anyone familiar with this program would be helpful or any Real estate attorney's out there?
Thanks!
Thanks, Highlndr… You are correct in that they might not even qualify, but I spoke with someone at CW myself and they told me that the application process can take a couple of months, so the people have just bought themselves another 2-3 months of free rent at my expense. So, yes, even after all of this it could still happen, but I'm done playing the games with the seller and CW. They were informed that I could sue, and that they could still be foreclosed upon, but I honestly don't think they were ever planning to leave. I never saw a single box packed. I understand the emotional toll and the fear and the fact that they probably have nowhere to go (I've been there!) but to wait until after I spent my hard earned $$ on the inspections is just plain wrong. So now, if they are not approved for the program, they no longer have a buyer.
Thanks for everyone's advice on this site. You all are great!
@ TJoy:
I'm so sorry to hear about this development on your purchase.
The national home retention program is new and CW is putting a big push on it. It's a blanket offer to everyone whose loan is or may soon be distressed. From what I've heard about the program here, and seen on other consumer sites, there is a chance that just because the offer was made to the sellers, it does not guarantee that they actually qualify for the program. Their decision to "withdraw" may prove to be premature, and it may not be over for you yet. Did you ask your agent if they have anyone in their office that has sufficient experience and/or knowledge, to offer you insight or could help you with this unique situation?
Good luck on it, however it works out – you certainly don't deserve to go through any more stress after being emotionally strung out and playing by the CW rules all this time. Perhaps others on this site will respond with technical information for you about the home retention program and any recourse you might have.
Again – the best of luck.
Well, a sad frustrating end to my short sale process… For 4.5 months we were the only offer on the short sale we were looking at. Countrywide moved snail speed, but was finally coming around and we were finally talking to a real negotiator and getting some where. Alas, just as things were finally working out for us… another offer was submitted — this was about 3 weeks ago. The other offer was for exactly the same total amount as ours, however, they had about 3x the down payment as us, which is obviously much more preferable to the sellers/countrywide. So today we were informed that Countrywide was moving forward with the process, but were now only looking at the other offer. So my over 4 months of work fared very well for the other folks that got a smooth ride into this whole deal w/o all the fuss and only a few weeks of waiting!!! I guess that is the way to do it!!! So back to the drawing board for us… At least there is a market FULL of as many houses as anyone could want… And the interest rates are lower then ever!!!
UPDATE: Countrywide ended up foreclosing on this property after all!!! So no one wins!! Madness, after all these months of drama!
In short, the other buyers offered 400K with 100K down. CW countered with 420K. Buyers were going to accept but then found over 10K in repairs that needed to be made before the bank would approve their loan (sewer lines and water heaters had been replaced with used parts not to code etc and needed to be fixed.) . Buyers reduced offer to 410K to account for this additional cost they would have to pay for out of pocket before their loan could even be approved!! CW declined. Foreclosed instead! Crazy stuff. 7 months of short sale madness and two willing buyers on the table, CW still forecloses!!!
Thanks highlndr
… GOOD LUCK!!! I really hope your verbal approval turns into the real thing!!!
My short sale was approved last Friday. VERBALLY approved, so far, so I am very cautious about being too happy. Our advantage is, we are being monitored by the executive offices on this go-round, after the dragging out, delays and overall mess they made on the first offer and its approval that came too late.
Meiks – we submitted three offers to CW at the same time – only 5k difference on the top two, but the highest offer was asking for assistance on the down. CW is taking the second highest offer; not the highest. These people and their broker knew they were bidding against another party, without knowing the exact details. My agent has been hearing from the potential buyers' broker/agent constantly. Their agent keeps checking to see that they are still in the game, so HOPEFULLY, this sale will go through okay.
Again, my sale is just a verbal authorization, and I am not out of the woods yet. I wouldn't have even posted this if it had not been for Meiks' situation, and my sale being somewhat similar. Meiks, I hope you find someplace else that is even nicer, with a sale that goes through quickly for you.
Hi All,
Just wanted to give you quick update. We have been in the process of buying a short sale home since July. The first was CW and the second Chase. Well, Chase wanted $5000 more then what CW was willing to give up. So we ponied up the $5K. We received our approval letters Nov 14th. CW gave us until Dec 12 to close….Chase gave us until Nov 30th. Well, we had to completely redo our loan and in the middle of it my aunt died and we had another family emergency. So we tried to get the loan docs signed before Thanksgiving but they weren't ready until Tuesday before. Unfortunately, we were in a very rural area where FedX only comes in the morning.
…post continued…it said my post was too long…haven't had that issue in the past…
Which it was past the pick up time on Tuesday when we received the call that the documents were ready. Our lender, the county and just about everyone else was scheduled to be closed on Thursday and Friday. So even if we had found a notery and signed the docs and fed-x them on Wed no one would have received them till Monday Dec 1st. So we ended up signing docs first thing Monday morning. Well yep you guessed CHASE isn't sure they want to sign off on the property now since we missed the deadline. I am just sick. They only gave us 8 working days to redo our loan and close. That seems ridiculous to me.
So I guess we will see tomorrow. All of our funds have been transferred to our escrow account. CW is fine with everything. We just have to pray that CHASE sign off.
YIKES>>>>>I am a total stress ball again.
We lost our buyer – right when we were trying to schedule contract signing and escrow close date. CW sat on the offer for a month with no action, so we lost one month there, at the beginning. But, this was the buyers changing their mind at the last minute and backing out of the deal. As recent as last Wednesday, the buyers were calling us, b/c they were so very interested in it. The buyers and their agent avoided my agent's calls the last few days until this morning. What is wrong with people?!?
OMG! I want to be done with it. My agent already has it listed again (within the last 2 hours) and she's going to call everyone who has shown interest in it. She is fired up and anxious to sell it, and wants to have another Open House, probably next weekend. The third offer we had is $25k lower than the approved offer, so they’re pretty much out of the question right now. The place is in a great location; very nice neighborhood, it's clean and everything works – how frustrating!!
I am so very tired of these false starts, and all the waiting that every one brings. I am devastated, frustrated, discouraged – and probably in shock.
highlndr,
Hang in there. Has your agent submitted the third offer??? I don't know how much your how is selling for but another $25K isn't that much for CW. The house we bought recieved only 77% of the actual debt. The second only recieved 14% of the debt.
That said we almost backed out several time just because of the frustration. The biggest thing is that our agent didn't make it crystal clear how difficult a short sale is! I know often agents are optimitic with a buyer just to get the offer (like us saying we would close in 60 days…yeah right!). We wouldn't have been sooo tempted to back out if we had known up front the hassle a short sale is and that it can a very long long time!!! So I would ensure that your agent is letting buyers know exactly what they are up against and the time that it takes. The frustations, and the time. I really think this is the key. Good luck!!!
Hi Reflection,
Yes, She's already been working with the third offer to get him in there with a solid offer. As the seller, my preferred deal would be as close as possible to the one we just lost – due to the settlement payout from me. So, we want to present a solid offer, and hopefully keep the same negotiated settlement.
The backed-out buyer is a teacher who learned after Thanksgiving break staff cuts may start at the beginning of the year. They decided the new mortgage was a chance they just couldn't take. Also, even though we let them know from Day 1 it was a short sale, and the possible headaches included b/c of that – theirs was not the preferred offer until almost 8 weeks into it. That may have been an extra element of surprise to deal with.
So, the condo is being shown again, including an Open House if necessary. We had people who previously showed interest in it, and they are being contacted again. It's featured on communications to other agents as an approved short sale. (Deja vu…) I hope the third time is a charm….
I never could have imagined this sale becoming such a nightmare. Thanks for your support.
WE CLOSED….5 months later and it is finally ours!!!! Paitences is definately a virtue in short sales. Hang in there all it will happen. It is very discouraging but put up a fight. To all the buyers find solutions to the road blocks. My realtor was ready to cancel the agreement several times and I would suggest another way to go….e-mailing BofA really works too..
Good luck to all!
I closed too! I put the offer in 5 months ago and almost backed out twice. I had a verbal approval for about 5 weeks before we received the written approval. I only received that after I went on an e-mail and phone campaign. So thank you for Ken Lewis' e-mail address and the information on this website, without, I would have definitely backed out because the process was taking so long – longer than I thought was the worse case scenario.
Got a question. Lender is CW. Home owner hasn't made mortgage payments for 6 months. HO wants to do a short sale with me but wants "25k on the side" from me, separate from the short sale. This is illegal and I told them so. In that case, they want to sit in the house for as long as possible rent-free and sell off things in the house, until it goes to foreclosure.
Is there any way for me to approach CW and make an offer, totally bypassing the home owner?
TIA, Dave
Hey Dave… I would say just forget this one all together. It is hard enough getting Countrywide to get their act together for a short sale situation where the seller IS actually involved and trying to save their credit. If the seller is shading and unmotivated, Countrywide has less of a reason to do anything. Contrary to what seems to be logical, Countrywide does not care about closing short sales. It takes a lot of work and perserverance, mostly from the sellers side. As a buyer, you really have no power to contact Countrywide about the short sale unless you get express written consent from the seller, which seems unlikely in this situation. Besides, even if by some miracle Countrywide decides to approve the short sale down the line (again, extremely unlikely scenario), then do you really want to get this house when you already know the seller has no qualms about stripping down and destroying in the time he has left in it?
WE CLOSED!!!
6 Months and 6 days after we put in our offer. 80/20 loan with CW being the first and another bank the 2nd. During the 6 months of waiting the sellers had 2 liens put on this property. All of this had to be cleared up before we could close.
Good luck to all of you out there!!!
Our CW buying story to date: Signed PA on 16 Sep 2008, closing for mid-Oct, cash sale. Only vague dialog with seller's agent through Oct., ours only serious offer for the vacant house. CW negotiator not assigned until 31 Oct. Talk of a BPO in early Nov. 2nd mortgage settles verbally for 5k on 25 Nov. Verbal counter offer from CW on 10 Dec for 10k over our original offer. We amend our original PA to reflect the CW's verbal counter and 2nd's settlement on 15 Dec. 2nd sends agreement letter on 15 Dec (good til 15 Jan), CW sends their agreement letter on 19 Dec (good til 19 Jan) and closing is scheduled for Wed, 31 Dec. All is well. Call from our atty on Tues: the closing is postponed indefinitely. The title insurance underwriter doesn't like the CW agreement letter apparently. CW only services the mortgage, Bank of New York bought the debt in Feb 2008 (they're not the original lender) and has filed foreclosure against the owner (though not served). CW letter doesn't say explicitly anything about Bank of New York releasing its lien or dismissal of the foreclosure suit. The intervening New Years holiday doesn't help and we lose more time. And now the title agency won't close until it gets something (they won't say what exactly) from CW. Is the title agent asking for something they (and we) will never get? Could we lose this because CW doesn't own the mortgage it services? Any suggestions on how to move this toward closing? The clock is running out on us and this property.
@drgernwoh –
CW has servicing agreements with a wide variety of investors. Their arrangement with each of these investors varies as well. In many cases, CW has 'delegated decision' making powers. That is to say that the investor has empowered CW to act on their behalf in matters such as negotiating short sale payoff amounts and terms, even though the loan does not belong to CW. The relatively quick turnaround — in the world of CW — suggests such an arrangement with Bank of New York.
Your intuition is correct. The title officer is asking for a doc that will likely never happen — not in time to do you any good at least. CW uses a standard form letter for short sale acceptance that has been approved by their legal dept. To my knowledge, they never deviate from that form. Find out specifically what title is looking for. Don't wait for your agent to do it, pick up the phone today and get the story for yourself. Be assertive, you are the one writing the checks here. If they are less than compliant, consider switching title companies.
When a short sale closes escrow, a copy of the final HUD-1 is sent to the lender(s) for approval. An authorized officer must sign and remit the HUD-1 to the title office before the sale is funded. The lender(s) have 72 hours to rescind, if they so choose. Once they sign in acceptance of the HUD-1, they relinquish all rights to foreclose on the property and accept the short payoff. Therefore, a release of lien and cancellation of trustee sale is essentially automatic. I know of no court of law in the land that would allow otherwise.
A follow-up to the list: we closed today (Jan 14th) almost 4 months from our original offer without difficulty (except for a dose of winter in NW OH).
We believe the primary difficulty came from lack of understanding (trust?) of any relationship between CW and Bank of New York by the title insurance underwriter. Our old-school, semi-retired attorney, based on his reading of the Commitment for Title Insurance had been adamant from the start that the seller should have been negotiating directly with BoNY rather than CW — CW had nothing to do with this deal in his opinion (which, of course, was wrong, but we kept him on anyway). So when the CW acceptance letter came, our attorney likely made certain that he underwriter at the title company followed through on this. Another realtor specializing in short sales suggested to me immediately following the Dec 30th postponement that the firm/attorney handling the foreclosure for BoNY/CW was the key — it took the title company 10 days to figure this out, and then got it wrong. Based on information from the seller and her realtor, we got the title company talking directly to the foreclosing attorney's office, and within the hour, our closing was scheduled for the next morning.
VA Loan Guy is correct about the CW standard acceptance letter and their servicing agreements with investors (and we had no reason to not trust it). In our case, however, a conservative title company didn't trust this CW/BoNY relationship until that relationship was explained sufficiently by the foreclosure attorney (or so we believe).
One more point: based on earlier posts here, I sent an e-note off to ken.d.lewis@bankofamerica.com explaning our difficulty in getting the title company to accept the acceptance letter on its face. After some more research, I came across a few more e-mail address at Countrywide, and sent similar messages late last week, then again on Monday. 20 minutes after our closing was scheduled, I received a phone call from someone claiming to be in the Office of the President at CW, telling me that they had also been in contact with the title company closing agent, and gave me her direct number in case there was any further difficulty with the closing. I don't know what communication prompted that action, but I did find it interesting.
All more than a little frustrating, but, in the end, we made it work out.
I would be looking at a shortfall of 60K on a HELOC (2nd) and 130K on the 1st (owe 480 – worth 350). Has anyone heard of a short sale where CountryWide would be willing to forgive this much – or would foreclosure be my only option?
Thanks in advance for the responses.
@ John –
130k is a pittance compared to some of the losses I've seen recently on short sales. Really, what is an 'acceptable loss' is relative to many factors including the original loan amount and current local market conditions. The fact is, foreclosures cost lending institutions like CW a lot of time and money to process and liquidate. You should open the dialogue with them today and find a competent, short sale savvy real estate agent to help you negotiate an agreement with your lenders.
Appreciate the comment!
Great information folks! I started searching the net last night about Countrywide short sales and found this wonderful blog. I will be submitting an offer early next for a property that is a Countrywide short sale and I should be the first to submit. The agent representing me is also the selling agent…she is great. She also recognizes that she is not an expert in these and has a specialized short sale broker that is working for her behind the scenes.
On some other blogs, I have read conversation that it is Countrywide's policy to have my lending (the buyer's lending) through Countrywide in order for the deal to work. Can anyone confirm or refute this information? The house on the propery is an incomplete remodel and the lending has to be a construction type of loan. I have secured the funding however it is not through Countrywide as most people are not writing these types of loans today.
Thank you in advance – Gary
Gary, I'm not so sure about that. My pre-approval was thru CountryWide and 5 months later I'm still waiting. Last week I was so annoyed at how the long the process was taking I took $10,000 off my original offer. Something tells me I've just added 5 more months to this already drawn out process.
Hello..
I've recently submitted an offer on a short sale 1/20/09.. The Owner has signed the contract and is working with a facilitator to negotiate the short sale with Countrywide. I did my homework and found that the property was well into the foreclosure process, the hearing for the foreclosure was on 1/30. I made some calls and got the judge to allow me to sit in on the hearing, which I then found out exactly what was owed on the property and when the county auction date would be… i.e. March 3….. The auction requires you pay for the home in Cash by the close of the day… (not an option at the price the bank will most likely be approved to bid to) I have tried multiple times to get information from CountryWide, but I don't have authorization from the Seller to release the status information and they don't seem too willing to give me this authorization. This is really holding me back from pushing Countrywide…. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get CW's attention before the Auction??? Or if there is anything else I can do??? (p.s. I was able to get out of them that they have 3 steps in which negotiators are involved and that there is a negotiator assigned.. but that was it)
@ Gary –
There is no truth to that rumor and CW is in no position to make such demands. I would also advise you to be extremely vigilant when dealing with an agent that is not short sale savvy. Be sure that you have all of the addendums applicable in your State. They will save you much grief and thousands of dollars. If in doubt, post here and I will help you.
@ Tired –
Regrettably, I have to say that you probably did add more delay to the process. Any time something changes, the paperwork has to be scrutinized further. Unless CW has rejected your offer or the property simply does not appraise well, it does not serve you to alter the deal. Having noted that, your frustration is understood and shared by many on this board.
@HELP_pls –
There is little that can be done about gaining access to someone's credit account if they don't want you to have it. By your outline of the events, the deal rests almost entirely in the seller's hands. A seller who is 60 days away from total credit ruin should be highly motivated to help you, the prospective buyer, to get the deal done. Likewise, the listing agent should be compelled to move forward — if the property goes to a trustee sale, the agent walks empty-handed.
The afore mentioned aside, you can contact CW expressing interest in the property and request a postponement of the trustee sale in order to provide ample time for them to review your offer. CW and most other lenders do so on a regular basis. Chances are good that the negotiator is unaware of the rapidly approaching sale date.
The short-sale process seems pretty unnerving for both buyers and sellers alike. Based on a lot of the feedback that I've read, it seems like Countrywide has little interest in the short-sell.
I spoke to the VA about my loan and they mentioned that they don't really get involved anymore unless it reaches the foreclosure process (and it sounds like they're an arbitrator more than anything else).
I wish I had known about Countrywide when my loan was sold to them… I would've refinanced with a different company.
VA Loan Guy-
Thanks for the input. What do you mean when you say?
"Be sure that you have all of the addendums applicable in your State. They will save you much grief and thousands of dollars."
Thanks- Gary
@ Gary –
Addendums are clauses which either add to or alter the terms of the purchase contract. They are used for special situations, some of which are fairly common, such as short sales, estate sales, unfinished homes and the like. Most States have some type of 'Short sale addendum', the purpose of which is to protect the buyer and seller from some of the common pitfalls of this type of transaction. Amongst other notables, it typically contains a clause –
1. advising that the contract is contingent upon acceptance by the seller's lender — translated; no approval letter, no deal.
2. stating that the seller intends to excersize due diligence by providing the lender with all required documentation in a timely manner. I refer to such terms as a 'kick in the butt clause' — a reminder that all parties share some liability for non-compliance.
3. stating that the date of 'contract acceptance' shall be the date on which the buyer's agent receives the acceptance letter from the seller's lender — this clause is extremely important because you need not waste your money on inspections and appraisals until the bank has approved the deal IN WRITING. I don't even put up earnest deposits without the all-important approval letter in hand and neither should you. Some addendums already provide for deferred earnest deposits. If not, you can write it in as an additional term.
4. waiving any type of seller's warranty of the premises. In some States, this may be part of a seperate 'As-is addendum' . If this is so in your State, make sure you have one completed and signed by all.
5. allowing buyer's cancellation of the contract at any time prior to seller's lender's acceptance without penalty — another extremely valuable clause when a short sale is dragging on into eternity.
VA Loan Guy, cg, and Mieks –
I actually signed my doc's last Saturday – and no payout!!! What a wild ride!! We presented and were appproved three times for my short sale with CW – and lost buyers 2x.
Since April when I first requested consideration for a short sale, CW drug their feet on approval, lost dozens of doc's, phone rep's repeatedly lied to us about the progress/status. So, in October I got the attention of the office of the Prez, and they worked with us on my sale(s).
I moved out in Nov., but kept the place clean, the HOA account current, and utilities on so it could show in its best light. Ironically, from Dec. 1 to Jan 10 (when one buyer walked, and the next one came along…) the accepted sale price dropped $20k; but CW approved it – again.
I've actually signed my doc's – I have no payout – I can't believe it!!
I get exhausted just thinking about it. My average credit score has dropped about 80 points in the last 5 months – so now I need to request a "rapid rescore" to get that addressed.
*** sigh *** What a nightmare! But it's almost over!!!
Hi All,
I think I can shed some light on a few of the concerns posted here. I had stayed off this site for a while b/c of the stress associated with my short sale. (Longest 8 months of my life – Yech!)
Office of the Prsident is becoming more swamped with handling/coordinating problem situations, and their phones & personnel are much busier. BUT the good thing with getting on their radar- when you call in and enter your accoutn #, call goes straight to Office of the Prez. You do get this preferential treatment.
As recent as 2 weeks ago, CW negotiator still would not share with me who our 3rd party investor was. Interesting that someone was able to find that out.
Whether you finance with CW or not makes no difference. I had a buyer pre-approved WITH CW FOR ALMOST 2x my sale ammount, and they ended up walking b/c of the long delay.
My account was watched over by Office of the Prez since early October, and below are my time frames.
I'd like to add a note about how the "investors" look at buyers' financing: My condo ended up going to a $350k all cash sale. I asked the negotiator – will this be a slam dunk now that we have an all cash offer? Her response was "no – absolutely not. Cash only makes no difference to them – they are ultimately looking at their loss on the deal. But, they do want a strong offer, of course." I, as the seller, had to submit updated and thorough personal financial reports with every offer considered.
The offer that was considered before this one was a LosAngelesUSD financing, offering $370k with a larger down. That offer was selected over another buyer's offer of $375k with a smaller down. They preferred the lower loan to value ratio, so it was the way that offer was written. And, that buyer walked Dec. 1st – theirs was a 2-month wait to approval.
And, it did finally sell for $350k cash – submission of offer to escrow signing took 4 weeks. I wouldn't wish this experience on anyone.
Way to go, highlndr! Perseverance pays. You saved your credit from total ruin and gained valuable wisdom in the process. I hope you'll stay around and share your insights with others here.
Well done!
Thank you for the kind words, VA Loan Guy!!
I just checked my True Credit 3-score report subscription. (An investment I promised myself in the midst of this)
It's not as bad as I thought – my range among the 3 scores is from the 740's to the 670's. I am going to submit a packet to all 3 bureaus, including printouts of when my mortgage was in "Collections Suspended" status, so I can get a boost back into those scores. My agent suggested the Rapid Rescore request, and I documented it all – so I'll try it.
Whew – I definitely learned a lot through this process.
Thanks again to all for your support. This site was definitely a blessing, with all the info posted here.
As the buyer, I think you're limited on who you can reach out to for info. The seller has to submit updated personal financials on every offer, and whenever CW asks for it. It gets very frustrating, and makes you question what they're looking for; but CW has a method they follow. The seller should have access to the dates related to the sale, and that info is accessible online on their account log in. I was at this point 3 times on the same property: every time the seller gets approval on the negotiated sale, it should be finalized 30 days from the verbal okay.
I was the seller, but I sent faxes to the B of A home retention team whose offices happened to be in the same town as me, and 4 other executives at B of A and Countrywide. I used a site that listed executives for different companies, and selected any one who was listed as "real estate – consumers". It was a fax to a B of A exec that got my file into the president's office at CW.
My house is at a market value of 176k. We bought it 5 yrs ago. The loan was 153k and now it is down to 146k. We are paying PMI too on the mortgage. We have countrywide as the lender. We are thinking of doing a short sale on the house because we lost one of our job. We are thinking of doing a short sale at 100k. Do you think countrywide will approve it? Should we go through the hassle or simply just foreclose it?
@ lee –
Did you mean that the current value is 176k or that you purchased for 176k and it's now worth less than the mortgage balance?
Does anyone know if my short-sale approval will be affected if I have better finances now then when this whole process began almost 8 months ago?
We have lost 3 buyers during this time because CW was taking so long to approve the short sale. The reason that my finances are better now is because I was in a car accident a little over a year ago and I got a settlement for it 3 months ago. Regardless of the money I have in the bank now, if we keep the property we will most likely be facing the same scenario later on and we would rather just take our losses now.
Steph –
As a seller, you will be asked to disclose to CW your actual, current finances (probably 2x) every time you have a potential buyer. CW asked me for my current finances at the beginning of each offer submittal, and at the end when the third-party investor reviewed the offers for final approval (to determine what the seller's pay out amount may be.)
When I complained that I had already given them my current finances for the existing offer, they responded that they want as current as possible, and the ones they had were more than 45 days old. (They had the file so long, the process had passed their own guideline of what is preferred as "current.")
I hope this info helps clear it up a bit.
I understand that we should provide our most current financials. My concern is that the fact that we have more money now than we did before (when we initially asked for a short-sale 8 months ago) will prompt them to deny the short-sale, especially since we are now on the third buyer and coming close to them sending it into forclosure if they dont approve it soon. Like I said it was a settlement from a pretty bad car accident.
I just dont want them to ask for us to pay up leaving us broke again and still not being able to make the mortgage payments (we also owe more than our house is worth so it is not worth keeping it).
Current Short Sale timeline from CW site: (Sorry – you may want to Copy & paste to a new doc to read this better)
Part 1
Call (800) 669-6650 Please have your Loan Number and Property Address ready when you call
Additional Useful Information To Have Ready When You Call:
*** A brief explanation of your circumstances: Include Recent income documents (such as Pay stubs; Benefit statements from Social Security, Disability, Unemployment, Retirement, or Public Assistance. If you are Self-employed, have your tax returns or a Year-to-Date Profit and Loss statement available for reference); Bank Statements and Tax Returns for Past 2 Years
*** Property Disposition Options: If you are not interested or are unable to retain homeownership, the following programs may be available: Short Sale / You may be able to sell your property at its fair market value even if the sale's proceeds are less than what is owed on your loan.
Current Short Sale timeline from CW site: (Sorry – you may want to Copy & paste to a new doc to read this better)
Part 2
*** How the process works: This option provides you with an opportunity to sell your home quickly, while attempting to preserve your credit rating. At the close of escrow, if the short sale is approved, the proceeds are wired to us. Documents that are required: Updated financial information for all parties on the loan; Completed short sale documents (i.e. Purchase Agreement, HUD Documents etc.); Verification of income; Interior appraisal
*** Estimated Timing: The short sale process typically takes 60 days to complete, but may take longer.
The primary stages are: Determination of value – 2 weeks;
Negotiation and approval of offer – 2-5 days;
Transaction approval – 2-5 days;
Escrow closing – 2-4 weeks
* All plan options may require investor/insurer approval. All time durations listed are estimates only. ** This option may have tax implications. Please check with a financial or tax advisor.
Thank God this is finally over!!! I have been reading this site for the past few months as my husband and I awaited anxiously for our shortsale to go through. I have held back posting comments b/c I was so angry with CW that I couldn't bring myself to even describe my situation. I would like to encourage all of you sellers (and buyers), CW is slow, but patience is definitely virtue. I was fortunate enough to have very patient buyers, who made it very clear that were willing to wait as long as it took. Here's the rundown of my situation:
-09/29/2008 received offer for $200k (list price was $205k, outstanding loan approx $260)
-11/24/2008 CW assigned a a representative (this was not the negotiator)
-01/2009 Negotiator assigned
-01/26/2009 Shortsale and offer was approved
-02/2009 CW appraisal and buyer's appraisal completed
02/27/2009 WE CLOSED!!!!!
It took 5 months to close. Keep in mind, the timeline does not reflect a lot of back and forth, back and forth, between myself and CW. They lost/did not receive some of my documents more than twice.
Hi Chris. This process should have taken no more than 30 days to get approved. Like everything their are certain shortcuts your realtor could have taken…The problem in taking too long is that all documents have to be refreshed..ie. last 2 months bank statements, paystubs. Value was also different when you started and the house may not appraise for the buyer…Dealing witha knowledgeable realtor makes a world of difference.
You are absolutely right. I wish I'd read these posts before I selected my realtor. He pretended he had a world of experience in SS, etc, but I ended up doing most of the work (with my attorney's secretary). He provided no guidance whatsoever; all he did was call the buyers' attorney and give them updates that I worked to retrieve! If this weren't a SS and time wasn't so sensitive, I would have fired him. And you are very right about the 30 day approval. Their website even says 30 days to process I believe. This was very frustrating, but nonetheless, I'm ecstatic that it's all over! Thanks for your post.
I would also like to point out that it is VITAL to have an agent that is knowledgeable of shortsales and who will call CW to ensure things are moved along. My agent did much of nothing when it came to that (he is a whole other story). But I was so desperate to keep the buyers and sale the home that I called CW at least 2x a week (sent a letter to BOA and escalated to supervisors) to ensure things would not fall thru the cracks. If you don't call them, your file will be pushed to the back of the bunch! When you call them, please ensure they confirm that you are talking to the shortsale dept and NOT the workout dept b/c it will cause delays. After my file was assigned, I got them to give me the email address of the person handling my file and I began contacting her as soon as I could. She was very responsive.
Also, if you are checking the workout notes on under your account that tells you the progress of your SS, CW will give you a date that something will be complete and instruct you not to call them before that date because it will cause delays. THAT'S A LIE! First, the date they give you means absolutely nothing because they never complete anything by the dates they tell you. Call them whenever you feel you need an update or if too much time has gone by without your hearing anything. I'm sure CW is busy with tons of SS's, but you have to be persistent to get things moved along. I was amazed that it only took 5 months for me after I read many of the posts on this site. But please stay encouraged, I know it's VERY frustrating. My closing even took 3 and 1/2 hours b/c the CW funder kept disappearing (maybe went to lunch or something) and claimed she didn't receive the title company's paperwork more than once, so that was even frustrating, but nonetheless, it's over!!!
Chris – I know exactly how you felt – I couldn't post here during my last two sale proceedings; just thinking about it would make my shoulders and neck feel like they were on fire.
You're right about the dates CW gives you – if they say something takes 2 weeks, you can count on that they don't look at it until 2 weeks and one day. And, they do seem to misplace about 50% of the paperwork – constantly. Persistence, knowledge, and patience are essential to get through this process.
My buyers' final walkthrough was Saturday. All the doc's are signed, I have my amended "Demand Letter", stating escrow is to close "on or before March 6", but I want to see and hear "IT IS OFFICIALLY, HONESTLY SOLD" before I really believe it.
Why? Because I received in the mail – yesterday, the same day as the Demand Letter, a letter from CW stating my short sale was denied b/c the offer is too low. Thank God I have spoken to the negotiator enough to belive the short sale is almost finished!! They honestly don't know what's going on there!!
Highldnr – Yes, their processes and communication are completely broken. I hope your closing is still set to go for tomorrow and I hope you don't have to go thru the drama I did at my closing. It was taking so long that both attorneys had to leave to go to other appointments and the title company had another group to close sitting in the waiting area. Hope everything works out! BTW, do you know if there CW is suppose to send out additional paperwork outside of the closing paperwork?
Sorry – I don't know anything about any more paperwork than what I've got. I've spoken to my agent 2x since my last posting, and she says it's a done deal. As for paperwork, I have my escrow docs that I signed, and the demand letter. There was a possibility of a request for a one-week extension from the buyers, but they didn't need it after all. So, it's done!
I can ask my realtor if I'm expecting any more paperwork, and let you now later today. I'm with you – It's such a weird process compared to "normal" or "traditional" home sales, that you really don't know what to expect.
Highldnr – Also, how long did you wait before checking your credit scores?
Hi Chris,
I have checked my scores all along. About a year ago, CW sent out a letter offering their customers a free 2-yr membership to ConsumerInfo (Experian) because of a security breach by an employee. I have that and a subscription to TransUnion. I got divorced almost 5 years ago, so I've been very aware of being a newly single mother and focused on maintaining high scores as an individual. I have one score under 700 right now, and there is misinformation on that report about the mortgage, so I need to address it directly with that company. I printed out every time my sales were approved and fell apart, b/c the loan is "no payment due at this time" or "payment due" based on the status of it being in the "considering offer" stage. I plan to send the bureaus a summary of the short sale saga with a request for a Rapid Re-score.
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